Jonathan Drake

Joined 10 years ago

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Posts by Jonathan Drake

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  117

  Is homosexuality ever justifiable? I say YES!!!

  by TimothyT in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  13 years ago

  in the january 2012 awake, pages 28-29 there is another article about homosexuality.. .

  the writers argue that genetics, the environment, and sexual abuse do not justify homosexuality.

  the bible clearly states that homosexuality is wrong and is an abhorrent sin.

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  10 years ago
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  Jonathan Drake 10 years ago

  WOW! JD is totally obtuse! - DD

  Yep.

  "tabernacle" = skene NOT naos.

  Rev 7:15 naos - Strongs 3485 = a temple, a shrine, that part of the temple where God himself resides.

  Only the priest could enter the naos.

  Rev 21:3 skene - Strongs 4633 = tent
  

  Omg. And where was the tent that the priest entered? Was it in heaven or was it on earth? Where was the temple IN JERUSALEM where GODS HOUSE was? Was it in Jerusalem, in Israel, on earth AMONG MEN or in heaven?

  In both cases, the tent or tabernacle and the temple were on earth among men in the midst of the people. This is exactly where the book of revelation places it as well, hence the crowd, Ochlos, is in the Naos where God resides in the same sense as he always does/has in the bible among his people on earth. They are in the temple because they no longer have priests to represent them on earth and have been made clean and thus are holy and may enter the temple (check Hebrews chapter 7, where paul states there would no more be any priest succession as Christ is said to be the king priest for eternity who will never die).

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  117

  Is homosexuality ever justifiable? I say YES!!!

  by TimothyT in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  13 years ago

  in the january 2012 awake, pages 28-29 there is another article about homosexuality.. .

  the writers argue that genetics, the environment, and sexual abuse do not justify homosexuality.

  the bible clearly states that homosexuality is wrong and is an abhorrent sin.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 

  10 years ago
• 

  Jonathan Drake 10 years ago

  No...

  Rev 7:15

  15 For this reason, they are before the throne of God; and they serve Him day and night in His [a]temple; and He who sits on the throne will spread His tabernacle over them.
  

  Where is the temple and where is the tabernacle?

  Revelation 21:3

  3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne, saying, “Behold, the tabernacle of God is among men, and He will [a]dwell among them, and they shall be His people, and God Himself will be among them[b],

  Because it's off topic, I won't post about it again. But they are before the throne but not in heaven, the tabernacle is shown to be among mankind in the context of revelation. It nowhere states that it is in heaven, only on earth, among mankind.

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  117

  Is homosexuality ever justifiable? I say YES!!!

  by TimothyT in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  13 years ago

  in the january 2012 awake, pages 28-29 there is another article about homosexuality.. .

  the writers argue that genetics, the environment, and sexual abuse do not justify homosexuality.

  the bible clearly states that homosexuality is wrong and is an abhorrent sin.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 

  10 years ago
• 

  Jonathan Drake 10 years ago

  So your outnumbered by some very educated individuals

  No I'm agreeing with all of them. You need to go back and read the conversation. I suggested you start a new topic if you want to discuss the great crowd. This thread is about homosexuality and the outdated moral edicts of the bible and those who follow it.

  Somtimes posts here really frustrate me. You are factually wrong and that's the end of it. The word for crowd is not Naos. Good game. That was the entire conversation where you're concerned, and it is over. A topic discussing it is unnecessary.

  Haters gonna hate. Won't matter what I say to you, or how many sources I quote- you will always be right. If I felt you were reasonable I'd next post pictures of the entires in these books- but where this is concerned you are not reasonable. You blindly hate the bible, and your ignorance of SOME but not ALL topics concerning it undermines you're entire viewpoint IMO.

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  117

  Is homosexuality ever justifiable? I say YES!!!

  by TimothyT in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  13 years ago

  in the january 2012 awake, pages 28-29 there is another article about homosexuality.. .

  the writers argue that genetics, the environment, and sexual abuse do not justify homosexuality.

  the bible clearly states that homosexuality is wrong and is an abhorrent sin.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 

  10 years ago
• 

  Jonathan Drake 10 years ago

  Jd you are officially clueless, were you ever a JW?

  Well I quoted James strong from his concordance. Vines dictionary and Greens interlinear bible all agree and confirm with one another. So your outnumbered by some very educated individuals, regardless of my opinion.

  also yes I was a JW. They cost me a great deal in my life including a relationship with a loved one who lost their life.

  Link
• 
  117

  Is homosexuality ever justifiable? I say YES!!!

  by TimothyT in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  13 years ago

  in the january 2012 awake, pages 28-29 there is another article about homosexuality.. .

  the writers argue that genetics, the environment, and sexual abuse do not justify homosexuality.

  the bible clearly states that homosexuality is wrong and is an abhorrent sin.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 

  10 years ago
• 

  Jonathan Drake 10 years ago

  I checked it out and the word naos appears never to refer to the crowd or be translated as great crowd or crowd. its translated as temple or used in another word for temple guardian.

  The word used for crowd or multitude in revelation 7:9 is Ochlos, from der. Of 2192 (a vehicle); a disorganized throng (as borne along); by impl. The rabble; by extens. A class of people; fig. A riot... (1.) Used frequently in the four gospels and acts; elsewhere only in rev 7:9; 17:15; 19:1, 6; (2.) it denotes (2a) a crowd or multitude of persons; a throng (2b) often in the plural (2c) with 'polus', "much" or "great" it signifies (2c1) a great multitude (2c2) the common people (2c3) in jn 12:9, 'the people' stands in contrast with their leaders."

  
  

  so not only is it not naos, but it is a word merely signifying a numerous group of people, often disorgaized. Which, in my opinion, further emphasizes the realy probability that the religions are traps and the disorganized multitude that isn't a part of them are the ones actually doing what we are supposed to.

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• 
  117

  Is homosexuality ever justifiable? I say YES!!!

  by TimothyT in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  13 years ago

  in the january 2012 awake, pages 28-29 there is another article about homosexuality.. .

  the writers argue that genetics, the environment, and sexual abuse do not justify homosexuality.

  the bible clearly states that homosexuality is wrong and is an abhorrent sin.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 

  10 years ago
• 

  Jonathan Drake 10 years ago

  JD - I am wondering if you have ever read the bible without Watchtower glasses?
  

  I have/am. Witnesses are not the only ones who believe in this separation. And the reason is because of you read it literally it's clearly legitimate. This separation is the reason for the difference between 1thess and 2thess. In 1st he's talking about the nearness of their being taken to heaven, but in the second he's talking about the end far off in the future for everyone who doesn't ascend. There are a great many indications of this separation regardless of what JWs say about it.

  Dont fall into the same mistaken logic they use of discrediting the statement/belief because they happen to share it. Where the bible is concerned, if taken literally as it says, they aren't wrong on everything. But they are wrong enough to be killing people and protecting pedos amongst many other issues.

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  117

  Is homosexuality ever justifiable? I say YES!!!

  by TimothyT in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  13 years ago

  in the january 2012 awake, pages 28-29 there is another article about homosexuality.. .

  the writers argue that genetics, the environment, and sexual abuse do not justify homosexuality.

  the bible clearly states that homosexuality is wrong and is an abhorrent sin.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 

  10 years ago
• 

  Jonathan Drake 10 years ago

  I've not read the pages yet, but in response to the OP:

  I don't feel that the bible actually condemns homosexuals. In Ephesians Paul was writing to Christians, and he was writing to Christians who are part of the little flock. (The bible does actuall specify a separation between a smaller flock of king priests in heaven and a innumerable crowd on earth- however the number 144,000 being literal I think is highly unlikely). This is why he said that if they practiced such things they would not INHERIT the kingdom. This little flock rules over the kingdom, they inherit it as a possession. The innumerable crowd does not own the kingdom, they are part of it and thus part of what is inherited and owned. Therefore the scripture in Ephesians wasn't even addressing the common citizen of gods kingdom (in my opinion).

  i find it very difficult to believe that a loving God would force a person or expect a person to deny themselves love for ther e tore lived because they are attracted to the same sex. If it was a immoral looseness, like having illicit sex all the time with all sorts of people then I would say that's wrong regardless of gender (in my opinion according to scripture). But, I personally doubt very much that a loving God would kill someone for being gay when they are good hearted and honest people- even IF it were to turn out that it is wrong for everyone and my above opinion is incorrect.
  

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  7

  The new doomsday mag

  by Jonathan Drake in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  10 years ago

  so i just took a look at this and here is the dilemma:.

  where does the bible say that the world will be so literally destroyed like that?.

  1. i believe one may think of the verse in zechariah or zephaniah about the dead to your right and left- however was regarding jerusalem.. 2. peter speaks of a new heavens and earth where the elements being intensely hot will melt.

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  10 years ago
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  Jonathan Drake 10 years ago

  
  

  • pronomono6 hours ago

    I glanced over the pictures. My first thought? Jehovah will destroy those ruining the earth. Looks like he ruined the earth pretty good in those pictures.

  This is is such a good point. I will use this as well.

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  31

  the Witch of Endor

  by Magnum in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  10 years ago

  1sa 28:3-25 (nwt - not revised version).

  7 finally saul said to his servants: seek for me a woman who is a mistress of spirit mediumship, and i will go to her and consult her.

  then his servants said to him: look!

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  10 years ago
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  Jonathan Drake 10 years ago

  I should point out, for clarity, that while the context of what happens with Saul and the medium suggests a very likely probability the real issue at hand of a soul that is separate from the body shouldn't be dismissed.

  the fact is, as you pointed out, the bible isn't actuslly clear because translation into English leaves some things in doubt. Like in psalms it says that a persons spirit goes out before they go back to the ground (still haven't researched that yet), it also seems to indicate a separation in other areas which I can't think of off the top of my head. Then in the book of Enoch it specifically says that the souls of the dead go off into different... Sort of receptacles after death where they wait.

  its a very interesting subject. But at least where Samuel is concerned, my response is likely the one you'll get from anyone still in- and unfortunately the context supports it. So a different angle, in my opinion, would be best- if intended to use on such people. And outside sources like those posited here will be ignored by those people. Thus, as you mentioned, studying the same bible they use for support (real and not created support) of possibilities to put forward is the best course imo.

  also, it wasn't my intention to give offense, I just took what you said at face value. Something cannot supposedly be a thing in a case such as this- either it is or it is not. Your choice of verbiage suggests you either think it isn't or have serious enough doubts to use words that suggest it isn't (I.e., supposedly is a word that inherently casts doubt). And I'm not bothered either way whether you feel it is or isn't.

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  31

  the Witch of Endor

  by Magnum in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  10 years ago

  1sa 28:3-25 (nwt - not revised version).

  7 finally saul said to his servants: seek for me a woman who is a mistress of spirit mediumship, and i will go to her and consult her.

  then his servants said to him: look!

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  10 years ago
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  Jonathan Drake 10 years ago

  First, we're talking about the supposed Word of the Almighty God...
  

  This is the problem right here. Just as because Saul wanted it to be Samuel and so he believed it was Samuel and so it was- so you don't want the bible to be the word of God and nothing anyone says will convince you that it is. There's no difference, and therefore no point.

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